When Dodge introduced the all-electric Charger SRT Daytona EV Concept a few weeks back, the brand stated that the top-of-the-line Banshee model would beat the SRT Hellcat in every performance metric. No real performance numbers were offered and at the time, Stellantis didn’t have any all-electric vehicles to use for reference, but that changed with the introduction of the Jeep Wagoneer S.
Set to go on sale next year, the Wagoneer S will be a battery electric vehicle (BEV) and the brand has stated preliminary performance figures of 600 horsepower and a 0-60 time of 3.5 seconds. Mind you, that is in a full-sized SUV and while we don’t know how much the Wagoneer S will weigh, we know how much the current Wagoneer lineup weighs. The official curb weight of the Wagoneer ranges from 6,069 pounds to 6,704 pounds. We believe that the Wagoneer S will not be based on the same chassis architecture as the current gasoline-powered Wagoneers, instead using the STLA Frame dedicated electric chassis. Since that chassis was developed specifically to carry a large EV battery pack, perhaps it is slightly lighter than the chassis under the gas-powered Wagoneers, which ride on the Ram 1500 chassis. However, it is still a full sized, three row SUV, so we have a hard time seeing the curb weight drop all that much. As a result, we expect a curb weight in the 5,500-pound range.
So for the sake of discussion, let’s say that the Jeep Wagoneer S BEV has a curb weight of 5,500 pounds and with the all-wheel-drive BEV drivetrain, it can sprint from a stop to 60 in 3.5 seconds.
Now let’s say that we take that same drivetrain from the Wagoneer S, scale it down a bit and put it in the new Charger BEV. The Charger SRT Daytona Concept that debuted a few weeks back is slightly smaller than the current Charger four-door sedans and the concept has loads of carbon fiber. Based on those two points, we would expect that the Charger EV – even with the weight of the batteries and the AWD components – will weigh less than the current gas-powered Charger sedans.
The current all-wheel drive Charger models weight around 4,250 pounds with the standard V6 while the heaviest rear-drive models top out around 4,600 pounds (based on the official curb weight figures). For those wondering, the Tesla Model S Plaid, which is unquestionably the leader in EV performance, weights just under 4,800 pounds.
If the smaller, carbon fiber-clad next generation Charger EV can get down into the range of the current V6 AWD models, it would be at least a thousand pounds lighter than the Jeep Wagoneer S. If the AWD BEV Wagoneer can get to 60 from a stop in 3.5 seconds, imagine what a sleeker and lighter Charger with the same basic AWD BEV drivetrain could do. Dodge has said that it will beat the Hellcat cars in every performance metric, and if it is a thousand pounds lighter than the Wagoneer S with a similar drivetrain, a 0-60 time in the 2-second range seems very possible.
Again, this is purely speculation, but with the introduction of the Jeep Wagoneer S, we have our first estimated performance figures for a battery electric vehicle from the American Stellantis brands. It seems very likely that the larger EVs from the Jeep, Ram and Dodge brands would all share drivetrain architecture, so it is very possible that the next generation Charger will have a closely related BEV drivetrain to that in the Wagoneer S. If that proves to be the case, the all-electric Charger will be among the quickest battery-powered vehicles in the world.
9 thoughts on “Wagoneer S May Preview an Incredible Dodge Performance EV”
Realistically, all these electric performance vehicles will make it to market, but will serve as halo cars that help define but not sustain the brand. A projected $125,000.00 plus price tag on these super cars will find buyers, but regular folks and electric skeptics will out of necessity if not choice alone, gravitate to ICE and Hybrid cars. I’m thrilled by the technology, but committed by generational norms and modest expectations, traditional values and intrinsic characteristics to old school mechanics and engineering which, also realistically, will be there for folks like me. I’ll be happy to drive my RWD, loud, peppy Hemi Challenger, bought and paid in full, dripping in nostalgia till the cows come home. Moo Moo !
No more than what Chrysler and Dodge will be after all electric takes over, they might as well just fold performance and luxury into Jeep.
“Speed costs money. How fast can you afford to go?”
More and more, I’m coming to grips with this electrification thing and as much as I love the sound of the Hemi V8, as I get to hear them every day, I’m watching what this brand is doing and it’s actually very intriguing to me. While the ICE powertrains may be fading, the Mechanical side of alot of the automobile is still going to be very much there. The complaint that electronics have been taking over the mechanical side of cars has been going on since the 80’s and that trend has not reversed or slowed down at all. Replacing the internal combustion engine with an electric motor isn’t as “revolutionary” as I think we feel it is, especially in Dodge form. I’m saying this right now, not as a Dodge fan boy, but actually being unbiased about ICE vs BEV. There’s still maintenance involved and still upgradable parts for EVs and I think Dodge is going to do it’s best to stay connected and grounded to this, which is what they’re showing us by creating E-Rupt drivetrains and Fratzonic exhaust systems and things that will give us, the gearheads and enthusiasts, something to connect to. The Banshee is a first attempt at doing something different and while it may miss the mark it’s a genuine step in the right direction. Lets face it realistically people V8’s are DEAD!!!! it’s over, get over it! It hurts, I get it but it’s the reality. Yeah the guys over at Ford are saying their V8s are going to live on blah blah blah, who cares?!?! If we, who loved Dodge just wanted V8’s there are other companies that have V8s but even those companies are realizing that they can’t continue on with the old ways of thinking. I’ve said it before, there is nothing better than the sound of a V8, especially a Hemi V8 on the road today and there hasn’t been for a long time. That sound evokes a feeling that can not be replaced. It’s a heart song, it literally touches the soul. It can not be faked, or imitated or synthesized and it doesn’t matter how good a V10 or V12 or inline-6 turbo or boxster-4 or anything can sound, there is nothing that matches the aura of an American Pushrod V8. Trust me, I know. Unfortunately for us, those days and moments are truly getting ready to become fond memories. But again Dodge is doing something about it. While I feel Dodge missed the mark with the sound of the Fratzonic exhaust at this point, I want to take a moment (if the engineers at Dodge are truly listening and reading these things) to bring up a point that T.K made. The new EV performance cars are going to look like a dodge sound like a dodge and drive like a dodge. As I just said, no you can not mimic the sound of a V8, however, you damn sure can do that with a V10. Tuning the Fratzonic chamber to emulate the feral howl of the Viper’s V10 would be epic and nostalgic in a completely different way and the vehicle would still “Sound like a Dodge.” For the next part of the statement “look like a dodge.” The Charger Banshee concept isn’t horrible, however it’s not perfect. While Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, this car could definitely use a little help. Most of us are curious about the “red car under the tarp” I would definitely say if I were a Dodge design engineer, I would combine an evolution of the current Charger sedan with the ’99 Concept and the Banshee. The R-wing in the front is a cool idea and could easily be incorporated into an evolution of the current Charger’s front end design. Blending that fascia with an evolution of the Charger’s current headlight system along with a wide open R-wing grille that has the LED strip around it, leading back to the sculpted flowing hood and coke bottle side styling of the ’99 Concept’s quad-coupe body all leading back to the wide rear with the flying buttress C-pillars and the Banshee concept’s taillamps and a few spoiler options would actually work really well for this car. The back end of the Charger’s quarter pannels and trunk should actually lip up on their own like the ’68-70 Charger, a design that was incorporated on the last gen Viper. Even if this charger has a lift back design, it can still have that fast back shape and be a four-door coupe. And now for the other part of the statement “Drive like a Dodge.” V8 and V10 engines have a feeling that goes with the sound of their engines. They have a pulse. Electric motors don’t have that. You can feel it through the steering wheel, through the seat and through the pedal. In the gaming industry, engineers have spent thousands of hours and dollars perfecting haptic feedback through controllers and even through cell phones and other tech that we use in our everyday life. That same technology needs to be in these vehicles. To emulate a sound at idle and different RPM points and loads are only a part of the experience of having an American performance vehicle. There is a feel at startup that is different in a cold start vs a warm start, there are other things that go along with the sounds that need to be there for these new vehicles. This E-Rupt electro-mechanical transmission is a wonderful idea and hopefully it does deliver an authentic driving experience. As I said, the Fratzonic exhaust does need to mimic the Viper a bit more because that kind of sound would have a more organic and believable sound than what is currently being belted out of of the system that we have now. Of course, power levels and prices. it’s obvious we’d be dumb to think that all of these systems are going to be hellcat and telsa killers. alot of us can’t afford hellcats now so of course there should be affordable versions that are still going to perform better than the Hemi powerplants. I would say nothing less that 430hp for an RWD entry level single motor car then moving up to multi-motor AWD systems producing 500hp, 720hp, 840hp, and a 1,320hp car. There should be jailbreak options for each trim level and Direct Connection upgrades for power, suspension, braking, styling, etc. This way you can still have trim levels such as R/T, Daytona, Super Bee, Banshee, and Banshee Daytona 1320, which could replace the Demon as a “light-weight” street-legal drag car version of the Charger.
With the Wagoneer S being on the STLA Large platform and it being likened to a Trackhawk replacement. I can’t help but think about the next gen Durango SUV. If the Wagoneer S is a luxury packed 600hp silent electric premium performance vehicle, then wouldn’t that make the Durango it’s noisy muscle SUV stablemate again? An aggressively designed Dodge performance SUV with the “Look like a Dodge, drive like a Dodge, sound like a Dodge” type of vibe motto would definitely work out very well, especially if it could still tow and do the the things the current Durango can do but maybe a little better. The thing is, these cars need to be more than just “lights and clockwork”. They don’t need to be “cold and calculating”, they don’t need to be “three laws safe” They need to still have that “Dodge, leader of the human resistance” theme from the 2011 Dodge Charger commercial with Michael C. Hall “Never Neutral.” It needs to have the feel from all of those Pennzoil Hellcat commercials with that Yellow Challenger Demon going crazy in the streets! These cars need to be more than heard, they need to be felt they need to continue being a force! Tesla can be fast and disconnected, it has the luxury of being able to do so. It can be minimalistic, I can be empty and cold and “techy” Dodge can’t do that or it will fail! Dodge can’t afford to have an electric movement “reaction-compliance” vehicle like Ford has with the Mach E, it will fail. When I say Dodge I include Jeep, Ram and even Chrysler in this mix. This company can never lift from what it has become and I see it taking steps in the right direction by not fully following what everyone else is doing. Even when it’s mandated that everything be zero-emissions, the company can not afford to have the “one of us” programming. It can not be a regular “NS-5” (Yes if you guys haven’t caught on, I’m using alot of references from the movie I-Robot). Also, it’s not Dodge that should be taking on Tesla, it’s Chrysler. Chrysler is the brand that should be facing the charge (pun slightly intended) against companies such as Tesla & Lucid, not Dodge. The Telsa Model S Plaid should be being fought by the reincarnation of the Chrysler 300M, a long, sleek revision of the 99-04 Chrysler 300 letter car and honestly the most beautiful version of the 300 ever produced and that is a fact that is beyond contestation! And yes, that top of the line 300M to compete with the Telsa plaid should be a Hurst edition car offered in black and gold and white and gold. Just because it’s modern doesn’t mean it should pay homage to it’s history. To be honest, the entire North American Stellantis brand should get back into different markets and yes they should go electric. There should be a Civic Type R stomping Dodge Dart GLH hot hatch and yes it should be bigger than the civic and mimic a next gen-charger but smaller, yes there should be a Ram Dakota STLA large platform pickup truck in all electric that would lay waste to the Honda Ridgeline, Ford Maverick and Hyundai Santa Cruz. Yes there should be a Ram Ramcharger that would be like the Rebel or TRX but in SUV form. Yes there should be a new Ram 1500 Daytona pickup truck that can destroy the F150 Lightning and Silverado RST electric pickup trucks. If the brand is going to go into electrification, then go all in. I believe Stellantis can easily make this work and really change the game when it come to BEVs.
Very thoughtful and insightful. Not to engage every point, but to identify an overall theme, it is the opportunity and product mix that offers the greatest challenges but also rewards. This thorough analysis brings to the surface the enormity of the issues these opportunities present and the need for thoughtful planning and execution. I still maintain that full electrification of any brand, in the near future at least, is a major mistake, but to ignore the benefits, the requirement really of having electric in the mix, is not wise. Indeed, as your many suggestions point out glaringly, electrification is a delicate issue that must be addressed carefully and thoughtfully. Great effort on your part.
I do agree. The thing is that companies like Stellantis should focus first on improving the infrastructure with solar and wind power investments before focusing solely on electrification of the auto industry. Rushing into this new movement would be foolish if there isn’t a power supply to match the demand. Stellantis could easily have a section of the company that focuses on producing on-shore wind turbines, putting them in rivers not deep enough to be used by ships, or under bridges and also doing like Hyundai and Tesla and producing solar powered residential and commercial energy systems. I prematurely made a statement a few months ago about how people in urban areas would have a hard time with charging their cars but the fact is, people in these areas spend a lot of time with their cars in parking lots during grocery shopping trips or trips to the mall. You figure people spend 24-45min grocery shopping (or longer) and alot of times at least an hour at the mall. If all of those parking spots had solar charging stations, it wouldn’t be a problem. Solar and wind power are never going to deplete and they’re clean energy. Also all of the public parking spaces that have meters could easily be converted to becoming solar powered charging stations. If Stellantis really thought about it. It’s a genius way to sell American electric vehicles. Think about it. Stellantis, North America would be opening jobs to that many more people (some of them might be people that got displaced). American people are big on supporting American Jobs. We are truly a country that prides our self on our own pride. I mean honestly it would super easy to tug on the heartstrings of both diehard American muscle fans and fans of American Built, American jobs type people by having a commercial that shows the dodge brothers starting off in their factory and showing their first cars and show casing how they were pioneers of the American auto industry and helped lay the foundations for what we have today. Tying it into how influential Detroit is. Then moving on to the golden years of Muscle cars and showing Dodge muscle cars and how it brings people together and all of that kinds of stuff and show how it moved with the times and the technology and American industry and that kind of stuff, then fast forward to today and the brotherhood of muscle and highlight things about technology and how the world has changed and the industry and all of that and how they’ve stood the test of time and all of that stuff and then have a statement saying and now they’re leading the charge into the future and showing the new Banshee doing a burnout and taking off and then flashing clips of Stellantis branded wind turbines and Stellantis workers working on them, having scenes of families, American flags, maybe a glimpse of the upcoming electric Ram 1500 Electric truck, more American workers and family scenes, statements about the brotherhood of muscle, American workers, and American families and then have the final scene that pans out showing the banshee driving along a road beside water and panning out towards some city with clean energy with some catchy statement that evokes feelings of American pride and all of that kind of stuff. To market to an audience like US, you have to speak US and yes i capitalized that because when I say us, I mean US Americans. We like our burgers with beef, not vegan. We like our stuff to be what it always has been. We’re not good with change. We are famous for the statement of “back in my day.” and we hold on to that relentlessly. And that is a good thing because it’s who we are and we should be proud of SOME of that. While my initial response to this article may make it seem like I’m all for electrification, the truth is, I’m not. I love Hemi cars and old muscle cars. What I am all for, is Dodge. I am all for the fact that even with this transition, they still understand that we, the enthusiasts, the gear heads, the car guys & girls, are still here and they’re still wanting to connect with us and give us a place in this new world. Is the banshee perfect, NO. not by a long shot. It is amazing? yeah, it is. What’s truly amazing is that CEO Tim Kuniskis said that they read what we write and say. A CEO of a huge company actually paying attention to it’s consumers and not just the bean counters. The fact that there is a company like Dodge that is actually putting forth an effort to not abandon us enthusiasts in this new boring electric world. I’m not crazy about electric cars for alot of reasons, but if/when it comes down to it, I rather drive a loud, powerful, fun, engaging, electric Dodge, than some boring minimalist, disconnected, UN-engaging commuter like what most of these other electric cars are. I trust the Dodge, Jeep, Chrysler, Ram brand to deliver Battery electric vehicles that are close to what we are used to and will still allow us to have that emotional experience with our vehicles, rather than it just being a toaster level appliance like nearly all of the rest of these companies offer. But yes, alot of other Changes need to be made, before this new era of automobile kicks in to full swing.
This process, if it ever come to fruition, will take decades and trillions of dollars to accomplish. Globally I have even more reservations if the choice is feeding the masses or building solar and wind infrastructure. Being an academic myself and participating in many brain storming psycho babble exercises, I know how out of touch with reality these “intellectual elites” can be and how easily the dismiss opposition thinking that shatter their merry making with human life.
Given that background we must take the reality of this whole undertaking into consideration, the enormity of it and conclude it to be a bridge too far. Brands going all electric by 2030 will face extinction and the waisted trillions will inflict financial damage beyond calculation if public resistance and infrastructure and material resources fail to keep pace. Thank God Dodge has those next generation turbo six’s to fall back on coming soon. Frankly, beyond providing the power sources performance advocates want, beyond the dynamics of ICE, they damn well will need them to stem the tide of electrification failure, but to survive as a brand at all.
Summary; Yes there will be electrics on a larger level but they will be niche not mainstream in and of their own shortcomings.
The road to Hell is paved by good intentions, however this whole electric vehicle thing has not been thought out very well.
The infrastructure cannot support this for another 20+ years, and by taking pot shots at your base customers, you are rapidly losing the following you gained over the last 20 years. Ford has seen the light somewhat recently, here is a hint, You’re a north American company, act like one. quit trying to placate to the Europe mindset.
I know this post is weeks old but I just happened to notice something. Did anyone else realize that the wheels on the Banshee are a nod to the wheels from the ’68 Charger in the movie BULLITT? Just realized that this morning. I’ve been looking this car over and over trying to see clues as to what I’m missing about the next gen car and that just hit me.
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